Positive Test For Crys Dream

Due process is not being done. Making a judge-like decision without a trial, without seeing ALL of the facts, and with only hearing ONE side's argument would actually be the antithesis of "due process".

It is a shame that this occurred BUT rules are rules and " Due Process IS being done"..If it's a positive . End of story. All monies returned to others in the races and suspension as the rule states!

If the test result is legit no matter how it got there punishment must follow no matter the track record of the individuals involved.
Another sad day for harness racing. No winners here all losers... biggest one is the sport.

Although I respect the opinion of world class trainers like Blair Burgess I would say that the system wherein the horse is suspended is the result of demand from trainers that regulators do something about a perceived problem of performance enhancement by some of their colleagues. The argument that trainer "A" is a world class trainer and should merit consideration beyond the right to a fair hearing is not plausible as the rules should be applied the same to all participants if they are to have true meaning.

Too often I hear how so and so has a name and the ORC deals with him differently than it would somebody else. It's unfortunate that the horse is now suspended but these are the rules everyone who races lives by and is in part a signal to our ever dwindling customer base that anyone caught using a foreign substance will be dealt with in prompt fashion. Do I think it's a shame that Crys Dream may miss some major stakes depriving fans an opportunity to see a great filly yes, do I think it's fair the answer is yes.

why is everyone mentioning that Mr. Dubois would not give his horse any type of performance enhancing drug. Why is his name even being mentioned? He has never been listed as the trainer of this horse !

I find it hard to accept Blair Burgess's statement "there is absolutely no way that crys dream received anything that in anyway enhanced her performance on that night". Just how would Mr. Burgess know this unless he was there 24/7 attending the horse. I wonder if it is the car's fault, when we get speeding tickets.
Sam Taylor

Let the process work. Let the filly continue to race by moving her temporarily to another barn until there is closure for the positive test.

Regardless to how the positve test came to be the filly did
not go into the drugstore herself so why punish her. It would be a shame not to see her finish out the season.

Just my thoughts.

There's no way that Mr. Dubois did anything intentionally illegal. Like Blair stated it might come down to something as simple as a topical product that had an ingredient that the trainer did not know about. Still a positive, though unintentional & has to be handled the same as an intentional one. I'll wait til the final results come out! Mr. Dubois is respected world wide as a top trainer & breeder. It will be the fans' loss if we do not get to follow this mare this season as she looked a special one. Mr. Turner how many TB trainers are working their horses from the rail? There's a lot more to training than jogging one, but continue on your conspiracy theories!

I completely concur with Blair Burgess's comments. Unbelievable how the lynch mob has congregated on this incident in my opinion, to vent their frustration on the current rash of "super trainers". Obviously there will be positives of this nature and it is a real tragedy that connections of this caliber are implicated in what seems to be just an honest mistake if not by the trainer by the testing procedures which would not be for the first time in Ontario. The filly is by any standards a super horse, a future star and we are really not talking of a positive involving performance enhancing drugs. While the industry focuses on this incident the real offenses involving drugs impossible to trace, drugs way ahead of the scientific testing curve that syphon millions of dollars into the hands of trainers and owners of questionable character remain ...this is the real tragedy.

I hope Crys Dream's connections appeal this orc decision quickly. The orc could have handled this better then they did. Diehard fans and the betting public deserve to know the whole story, so that we can decide for ourselves. I don't want to be bored by the orc's (hearings) lawyer lingo, I want to hear scientific facts, and possibly an admission of guilt or otherwise by the trainer. The orc can also do a better job to educate, on their thresholds, for med's used by trainers.

The problem with this scenario is that it really does hurt the industry on many fronts none perhaps more then the damage it does to a bettor's confidence that they are getting a fair shake. It also severely diminishes the fans perception of a horse being a true champion. I was fortunate enough to witness what in my mind were some true champions of the sport live. I speak of the great Secretariat, Niatross,Cam Fella,etc. While it is true that once cannot be 100% sure that these champions were pure it at least left the fan the impression or belief that they were. Nowadays it is very difficult for a fan to believe a certain champion is a true natural. This is not our fault. The industry brought this upon itself. The end result is the fan base diminishes because horse racing just becomes "ordinary" now. No need or desire exists to make a vist to the track anymore to see a true champion because do any really exist?

I agree with Mr. Barnsdale on many of his points. As a bettor, and a large one at that I have many times felt contempt from the so called horse racing community anytime the integrity of the game was questioned. However as Mr. Barnsdale so accurately points out the racing industry needs us. You cannot survive without us because the slot gravy train will not last forever. There will come a time when governments make a decision that horse racing is no longer needed to generate serious gambling revenues. In fact it really is an impediment because horseracing costs far more then casinos do.

Racing absolutely has to recover its fan base, if that is even possible. The only way to can do that is to show itself as being clean, honest and able to regulate itself with fairness and transparency with a strong regard for the bettors who are the ones who can only truly sustain it.
I am not saying a result like this turns me off racing. It does not because I do believe there are possibilities of errors and minor infractions and the punishment needs to be fair. But as was pointed out on another post when certain trainers get horses for the first time and drop seconds off their best marks then cmon we all know what's going on. Let's not pretend we don't. And that is the serious issue (along with drivers often not giving top efforts which is a story for another day) that needs to be addressed. Until these issues are addressed then every positive test will just be another nail in the coffin for racing.

Peter smith, I believe a trainer by definition is someone who jogs,cares,works horses.if It is ridiculous to think that a trainer actually jogs and trains horses I guess I am. And don johnston, it is reported that class 2 drugs can be blocking agents calming agents would be so so surprisiig that they gave these such as she had an sting spot on her foot and they did not want to miss out on their big paycheck or they gave her something to keep her calm as she was acting highstrung? Don't get me wrong though I have no problem with any of the connections of this horse or with theraputic drugs, it is the trainers who are using something much worse which I believe 100 percent this horse was not given

I do not understand why the ORC is so quick to conduct a press release? Why would anyone not want to protect everyone in the industry by simply stating that an investigation is ongoing into the possibility that the horse tested positive?

I remember a few years back many top named trainers being set down and losing a lot of their clients for positive tests on their horses. I believe one of those trainers was the highly respected Ben Wallace. After their reputations were seriously impacted and their client list had decreased there was a press release from the ORC many months later stating that all previous rulings against those trainers were being dropped.

Mr Turner, where is it written that a trainer must jog all/any of his or her horses to be classified a trainer?? A ridiculous statement which you should retract.

Whether or not there is a simple explanation for Crys Dream's positive - how on earth can a suspension be announced BEFORE due process has even begun to take place??

It's too late now - the Crys Dream people are branded as cheats and will be forever.

I hope the ORC has a good legal team.

People, People Please give your heads a shake...This is the best three year old trotting filly on the planet and you KNOCKERS think that instead of winning every race by three lengths that the Trainer decides I'm gonna RISK IT ALL to win by five lengths...THINK ABOUT IT...This was not a NO NAME horse that came out of the clouds and upset Crys Dream to pay a $100.00 win ticket...There obviously was something happen here that was either a mistake by the Trainer, the Vet or the testing. For the ORC to release this information before all sides are heard or a retest is made is irresponsible.

Mr Barnsdale, I was a bettor long before I ever became involved in the industry. In fact that is the primary reason that I became involved. Every time I go to the races today I still do bet, although I would be the first to admit that my handicapping skills are rather poor today. Of course the bettor is our primary resource.
You throw up a dog's breakfast of items that in some instances have no apparent(at least to me) relationship to each other. I will dwell on just the one relating to due process. If you deny the importance of due process them we really have nothing to speak about. The lack of due process has a group of adherants going back to Attila the Hun and continuing to various Roman emperors, Henry the Eighth, Adolph Hitler and in recent years Bin Laden. If you wish to ally yourselves with the philosophies of these people then our free society allows you that right.

When is the ORC going to follow through to the fullest exent, you have a trainer who had to leave racing on the WEG circuit because he was horrible out of the d-barn and now just wins 5 a night at Georgian or grand river, a driver race fixing scandal which the three men appealed 11 months ago with no further outcome, this one of the most minor things which have happend but I give up on this so called "sport" run rampage by drug scandals, trainers getting postive tests and 5 day -90 day suspensions . You have trainers who do nothing but go to the winners circle and get their picture taken and tell interviews on how their horse trained so well for him/her and they haven't even jogged one in years, and are just ahead of the testing curve and collects millions a year.

This headline should read "Adverse Analytical Finding for Crys Dream." This is the term used for professional and olympic athletes to not tarnish their reputation until a double/triple/quadruple test (or in some cases a completely different test) can confirm without question that a violation has occurred. An adverse analytical finding does not necessarily lead to an anti-doping rule violation in human athletes and should be used to describe situations such as this one. I agree with Joe Riga and Peter Smith that jumping to conclusions and releasing statements of this nature to the media does nothing but hurt the reputation of the horse, trainer, and the industry as a whole.

James Stevenson: Mr. Dubois and his wife travel extensively around the world and they have the ultimate knowledge of everything that has to do with a horse being in a detention. Everywhere in the world besides North America, the owner can spend the night next to the horse. His wife is actually the one that sleeps with the horse. They protect their horses from any interference of any kind because they are always on guard. In North America, it is not allowed that they sleep with their horse(s), so the onus of what happens in the detention area is on whomever is on duty as the guard.

I happen to know that they are always the first to arrive with their horse(s) in the of detention area because they do not want to have any possibility of interference so that their animal would be scratched or suspended in order not to be able to race in the venue where they are.

Mr. Dubois and his wife are strangers in this country and they will never take a risk for anything to happen that will result in a scratch. They are personally involved with all the training and feeding, etc. of their horses. Do you honestly think that they would be stupid enough to risk a scratch when they have put so much time and effort into their investments in North America??????

Is everyone else in this industry so afraid of them that they jeopardize the Dubois' horse because she is such an amazing mare? We all know that this is truly possible and it is a tragedy all around.

In Italy, their top horse was kidnapped because he was so good? Doesn't everyone remember this story?

Let me tell you that the Dubois team will not be stopped by this event and will rise to win again and again and again.

Why don't you all step back and realize that they are awesome trainers, breeders, and horse lovers. Even if you try to prohibit them from a race, they WILL return again and again even stronger. And they will WIN!!!!!

Jealousy is a disease that needs to be cured in every sport. But it is a shame that this has happened to this team. But watch your backs, because they will be back and much stronger.

If you look at Crys Dream's veterinarian notes for her entire life, you will find that she has not ever had an injection of any kind. She is so strong and people should accept it - this is a sport, not a playground.

So get your facts straight and the truth will be known. And watch them win over and over again. Why not try to enhance your own breeding and training in order to compete on a level ground? Mr.Dubois is the Best Breeder in Europe - both standardbred and thoroughbred.

Mr. Dubois brought his stallion here to spread his popularity and fame. Again, why would he jeopardize this?

It is not about one race - it is about the lives of the Dubois' spent entirely on their breeding and training. Their lives are consumed with their business and that is why they have the success they have.
.

Zero Tolerance, stick a needle in a horse, get caught, Gone for LIFE

It is both a shame and a tragedy when something like this happens. Crys Dream is the best 3 year old trotting filly and this travesty happens.

The Dubois team is an amazing team. They are dedicated professionals with the horses' welfare always of utmost concern.

Mr. Dubois is the top trainer in Europe. At this stage of the game in North America, when Crys Dream is at the top of her class, would anyone believe that with such a valuable horse as this, the Dubois team would do something to jeopardize her chances of proving to the racing world just what a sensation she is.

Has anyone stopped to think that the results of the test might have been mixed up with another horse?

Why not allow owners and trainers to stay with their horses to protect them against any actions that might be harmful? They can do that anywhere but in Canada and the United States.

Let's all get with the program and all have the same rules so that nobody can jeopardize someone's else's treasure (as the likes of Crys Dream).

This incredible filly might now not be able to fulfill her destiny which is the top 3 year old. That's the real shame. She has heart - recognize that.

I strongly agree with Blair Burgess. The ORC is just letting everybody know that they, are more important then the stars of the sport. I think, if they dig a little deeper, that, they could find some performance enhancing reason for Crys Dreams superlative performance in her 3YO debut. I believe that this, overzealous, decision is more damaging to the ORC's reputation, rather than that of Crys Dream.

First of all she had a positive test. Second the trainer is responsible. Third the horse had a positive drug in it's system. The trainer should know the withdrawal times. He is responsible! Whether someone thinks the trainer or owners have an impecable record is a non issue. When is the harness racing industry going to admit that it is cheating and worst of all someone is stealing money from the honest horseman. Whenever a positive test is confirmed, yes confirmed, the so called elite of our industry defend them. Maybe protecting themselves! You wonder why the bet is down, look inside. Lets get rid of the cheaters once and for all, withdrawal times are there if you can't read get out! IT's time the ONTARIO RACING COMMISSION HAD SOME BALLS!

The reason there is an appeals process is to ensure that the proper decision was made. It would be a great injustice to suspend this filly for the major events in her 3 year old campaign and later have her appeal upheld...that being said, all of the money she earns while racing under appeal should be withheld and paid out only after her appeal is successful...if her appeal is unsuccessful her earnings for said events should be redistributed as if she were disqualified...Just my opinion

Haven't any of you people ever heard of a term called "due process"? Its a procedure upon which any free society is based. For goodness sakes, the people involved have not even had a hearing. Instead of unilaterally hitting her with a 90 day suspension, maybe they should order her execution in the city square. Oops I forgot they need to wait until Friday at noon to do that.
What is happening to our society?

Every single person here should read, re-read and re-read again Joe Riga's comments below because, no matter what the outcome of this situation with Crys Dream - the connections are now forever tainted by the label of 'cheaters'.

There's a very good chance there will be a more innocent explanation for this that "the trainer just got caught cheating" because this trainer's history (and this horse's obvious talent) just don't suggest 'Cheating'.

But, the mud will stick and follow all concerned around forever, that's the saddest part - just ask the trainers who got the bunch of false Aminorex positives three years ago.

Tragic.

Very sad to hear. That said, as we learned from a past mystery involving I believe a worming agent that was showing up as a designer drug, this should play out. From all accounts the trainer has a flawless record. This headline is bad for racing, but let's hope the stewards and the OJC get it right. I'm hoping Blair Burgess has it right and it's a trace amount of a topical treatment.

I read the comment of Blair Burgess and I cannot help but be suspicious. The reputation of the owner or trainer is irrelevant to the question of whether or not an improper substance was detected. To speculate about a topical contaminant is a sign that the trainer thought this excuse would be available if a substance he thought was undetectable caused a positive test.

While transparency is most of the time a good thing it would be very unfortunate if the violation turned out to be minor as per Mr. Blair Burgess' post and yet the incident has now stained the reputation of a filly that may be truly special. I have the highest respect for Mr. Burgess and I would trust he know what he speaks of. As far as I can tell he has an impreccable record himself and has trained many champions.
It may have been prudent for this issue to not have been reported until the details of the test (ie drug used, etc.) could be made. If in fact this drug was used for medical reasons as opposed to perfromance enhancement reasons there will unfortunately always be skeptics who may think a cover up is in the works. That would be sad and damaging to a sport that desperately needs positive (pardon the pun) news stories that center on the beauty and exceptional talent of some of these animals instead of the seedier side of the sport. Also it would be unfair and undeserving damage done to the reputation of a horseman who as Mr. Blair points out may very well be one of the cleaner ones in the game. How sad that it has gotten to this point due to the many cheaters in the past who have ruined the sport for everyone.

That is too bad, I was really looking forward to the rest of her three year old season. She looks like an amazing filly. Now that's all in the shadow of drug abuse. Don't understand why you would go there - Crys Dream is obviously very talented, but somehow that doesn't seem to be enough.
I agree that the ruling needs to stand now that the news is out and that there needs to be a message as far as drug abuse - even if it means losing a chunk of time with what appears to be the best three year old trotting filly in a while...

Once again, another black eye for the horse racing industry.

Why doesn't the connections of these horses that test positive not made to forfeit the purse money they won in at least the race they tested positive for, also the Trainer should be suspended for the same amount of time and both immediately, not after finishing the summer racing. The connections should be made to pay a fine equal to the purse money won to the racing commission. Seems the only one suffering from this ruling is the horse and I'm quite certain she didn't administer the drug herself. Ignorance is no excuse, if your not sure if a substance is illegal, ask the racing commission before you administer it.

Si je comprend bien,si les proprietaires vont en appel, la jument va avoir le droit de courser pareil..c'est une JOKE ca, d'après vous autres ils vont tu aller en APPEL!!

THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO WAY THAT CRYS DREAM RECEIVED ANYTHING THAT IN ANYWAY ENHANCED HER PERFORMANCE ON THAT NIGHT!!!! She comes out of a stable with an impeccable reputation and her past performance indicates she obviously needs no help to destroy her opposition. I am certain it will turn out to be a topical product containing a minute amount of analgesic (or something like that). (Who is to say these arbitrary drug classifications are properly assigned?). When the shrill call from industry participants for a rule that would suspend the horse, and not just the trainer came, it surely was never intended to penalize such a participant as this. It is a stupid and ludicrous rule that allows the ruling body to overreach its mandate and authority. Severe penalties are for those that intentionally break the rules in order to gain an unfair advantage. No one other than the trainer who has care and control should be penalized for an error made in treatment of the animal. Others cannot be held responsible for this. The industry in general is being damaged if this filly is not allowed to compete.

I am very suprised by the positive test, she does not need any performace enhancing drugs! She's leaps and bounds the best 3 year old trotting filly! i think it will come out as a total mistake.

I agree with everything Mr. Stevenson says and would add that unfortunately whether deserved or not this finding just stained the reputation of a horse that in many fans eyes was starting to look like something special.

This is a huge disappointment. I thought finally the industry would begin to have positive ambassadors, not positive tests....

"just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water..."

James...I could not say it better myself. To allow Crys Dream to compete for the big purses would be a crime and send no message to the industry. If the test is positive without any doubt she should not race in overnights or major stakes, and if is allowed to then all the ORC is doing is putting up smoke and mirrors to the public. The penalty is the result of cheating and you should not be rewarded because the horse looked to be exceptional (prior to being tested positive).

"And one would be naive to think that other members on this partnership had no knowledge..." Really James? I think that most owners have other business' to run or jobs to attend. I am so tired of owners getting blamed, when professional trainers violate the rules. I can't really see how owners or partners share any blame in this.

Going from the champions house to the outhouse---- when are these trainer and ownership groups going to learn?? She looked like the best 3-year-old filly trotter in North America and know who knows?

Once again, the Harness Horse industry continues to be exposed to more bad publicity because, in their minds, some trainers have to find an "advantage" for their race horse in order to compete. And one would be naive to think that the other members on this partnership had no knowledge - if not, then why not?

It would be even more of a "crime" if Crys Dream was allowed to continue to race in the major stakes, as the ORC has an opportunity and responsibility to send a significant message that using banned medications will not be tollerated - its time to take a stance and let those who are using, and continue to use banned medications that if they get caught, then the penalty will be severe.