Stephanie Jamieson. Anita Ouellette. Lynn MacDonell. Nancy Brown. Judy LaRush. Florence Campbell. Alice Kopas. We've brought seven generations of wives together for a good time... and to open up about every facet of their lives as racing's leading ladies.
Orchestrated by Kimberly Fisher & Brittney Mayotte
Nancy Brown sees me slide the recorder down the picnic table towards her. “Oh!” she grins. “No swearing now!”
“I always have lots to say,” offers Alice Kopas from beside her.
The sun is just beginning to fall towards the tops of the trees that surround us, and that warm summer breeze is finally cooling off. It’s been a long day of stylists and photographers, makeup and wardrobe, fussing and waiting and waiting some more. But these seven lovely ladies – Stephanie, Anita, Lynn, Nancy, Judy, Florence, and Alice – have been such good sports, and they’re happy to have a seat for some time so we can grill them on all things racing... on (and off!) the record.
What was your husband’s first reaction when you told him we wanted to interview you?
ALICE: He was delighted that you people included me and thought about me. He thought that was an honour as do I.
NANCY: Doug was just really excited and he said.. have a good time. Watch what you say.
LYNN: My husband’s reaction was that it’s a great thing. My fear was that I would use say the wrong thing and it would be ammunition for the driver’s room.
JUDY: Robin thought it was a wonderful thing and that it would be a wonderful thing for all of us. He was really pleased.
STEPHANIE: He was really thrilled – actually he thought it was about time someone included the wives in this business. Because you know, we are a big part of it. I was nervous too – I don’t want to say anything silly.
LYNN: Yeah, the driver’s room can be tough.
ANITA: My husband thought the shoot was a great idea and he thought it would be a change. And he thought, you know, a couple of good looking women won’t hurt anybody’s eyes! When I said... well, we are also going to do a roundtable talk, he said... augh... please don’t say too much!
FLORENCE: Jack was very pleased and I was quite excited about it also.
How would you describe your husband’s personality? How has he changed over the years?
FLORENCE: Jack is a tease... he’s happy and easygoing. He enjoys people and is compassionate. He’s mellowed over the years.
ANITA: I think everybody is going to say that!
ALICE: Well, I couldn’t say that my Jack was mellow. He was sometimes quite explosive, but he was always very, very much concentrated on what he was doing. He lived and breathed the horses. That’s what he always wanted to do and that’s what he was fortunate enough to be able to make his living doing. He was a very proud person and we always knew he was going to take care of us by working hard.
NANCY: Doug is very quiet. He’s also very self-critical – always has been. When driving, for example, a bad trip or anything like that was never the horse’s fault. It was always his fault. He’s very hard on himself. With other people, he’s the opposite. He doesn’t like to criticize others. If anything has changed, he’s lightened up a little bit.
ANITA: Luc is very spontaneous and adventurous, and a great family man. He’s definitely mellowed out. I think he’s definitely slowed down for sure. He’s become much more patient with having a family. He’s more relaxed. He’s still pretty wound up, but the kids and our family I think have helped him to just relax more and to mellow out just a bit more.
JUDY: When Guy was younger he was a great tease and as he got older it diminished a little. But he had a lot of enjoyment with friends and the horse people and everybody involved in the business. He used to look forward to being with those people on race nights. Of course the happiest place that he wanted to be was on that sulky behind the horse.
LYNN: Paul is a very easygoing person. He’s not hard to get along with at all for the most part. He’s very hard working, humble and loves to joke and tease, but he also likes to sit back and watch everyone else get teased. He loves that aspect of the driver’s room. And he’s forever the optimist in our family.
STEPHANIE: Oh… uh. Wild! No… very personable, very giving, and very generous. Jody has a big heart, and he’s a lot more sensitive than me – in a good way. His sense of fashion has changed, that’s for sure! When I first met him, he wasn’t the best dresser... But I changed that pretty quick! He’s definitely matured a lot and is a lot more secure and confident.
So when you guys go to the races to watch your husbands race – where can you be found?
ALICE: I used to do some of the work back in the barn. I learned to clean stalls, and give them a bath when they came back from racing, so usually I’d watch from over the back fence, because
I would be busy at the barn. Later on I used to enjoy going up to the dining room or the grandstand and visiting with my lady friends, who were also involved.
NANCY: Years ago – probably the first 15 or 20 years – you’d find me in the dining room. And my kids – they weren’t really around horses. They didn’t know anything about horses. Because Doug just drove, right? Since he’s not driving as much and is now in the training side of it more, you’ll find me right at the wire.
LYNN: For many years I enjoyed watching the races down at the fence. I love to sit on the picnic
tables there – I love to hear the horses, I love to hear their hooves, smell them... see them come out of the paddock. That’s where we were with the kids. Since the new grandstand was renovated (at Mohawk), I love to sit outside upstairs. You can still hear the horses and feel like you’re close to them. I don’t like sitting inside. I just want to feel like I’m part of it.
JUDY: Usually you’d find me in the barn area. In the last few years, you know, I’ll go in and enjoy a meal – I love Mohawk because you’re right there and the horses are right there.
STEPHANIE: I would say wherever there is food and wine you can find me! I like sitting up at the top on the terrace. I like being outside. I like being able to hear everything.
ANITA: I’m on the rail. All the time. With the kids. Just running up and down, back and forth, all the time. Just trying to keep them nearby. Near the paddock, on the rail – watching the races. I like being in the corner where the paddock is so that when Luc has a race, we can kind of chat a little or whatever.
FLORENCE: I was usually in the barn, paddocking a horse, back when we had horses. But now you might find me in the dining room. But I’m like Lynn. I like to hear the horse’s hooves and smell them... I think that’s the best part of it all.
Do you go to the winner’s circle when your husband wins/won a race?
ALICE: I did. And I have many pictures that bring back many fond memories. No one can describe the thrill. And even if the horse doesn’t win... if he has raced well, I just feel good about it.
NANCY: Ditto. I wouldn’t miss a race. It’s not that I go everywhere with him, but he’s driving now mostly our own. So it’s a little bit different, because you’re with them every day, you know. When he’s racing one of our own, I don’t like to miss them. And if he wins, yeah, I’m there!
LYNN: Of course we always go into the winner’s circle with our own, and usually just close friends that we have relationships with. I don’t go out for every picture – I don’t feel comfortable doing that if I don’t know them very well. So I just go when it’s people that we’re very close to and at a big race, maybe, I would go out.
JUDY: I would go out with Robin’s horses. In the years that my husband catch drove... if it’s close friend, yes, but you know... you don’t always want to go out and invade people’s space. But there was a lot of pictures!
STEPHANIE: Almost always, only because he gets pouty if I don’t. I will go out definitely if I know the people or if it’s a big race. But if he’s winning three or four in a night, no – I don’t like to. I feel kind of silly.
ANITA: I usually always do. Usually when I go to the races, I have the kids with me. I don’t know if I’m invading anybody’s space... but I am always there! The kids love it and it’s just a mini-celebration. And Luc loves it too – he loves when we come. So when we are there and he wins, we run.
FLORENCE: Yes, I have lots of fun going to the winner’s circle when there is a win, and we have many pictures to show it too.
Do you get bettors at the track asking you for your opinion or tips?
ALICE: No, I don’t think anybody ever thought I knew enough about it! I think people knew that I didn’t bet, but I’m certainly glad there are people who do bet, or we would not be in very fine shape.
NANCY: Back at Greenwood, the way the track was laid out was quite different. The drivers had to walk by all the people from the paddock. It could be quite scary. I know Doug had a beer bottle smashed on his helmet one night. So I found there, people would come up to me.... Doug was even afraid to walk in the two of us together. He would go to the paddock and I would go up to the grandstand. And I had a couple times where guys would follow you in and be like: “What’s Dougie going to do? What did Dougie say tonight?” And you don’t know these people, you know? That’s why I went to the dining room a lot. It could be a very, very scary place.
LYNN: I just have people jokingly ask – got any tips tonight? I think they think we know if our husbands are going to win. It’s like... uh, no... we are just as much in the dark as you!
JUDY: I agree with Lynn. I think it was mostly friends wanting a hot tip.
LYNN: If we had the hot tips, we’d all be millionaires!
NANCY: That’s right... we’d be at the track every night making money!
STEPHANIE: People come up and will ask, and I say ‘No! I don’t know!’ I have actually had people come up – after they bet, and lose – and start yelling at me! Like I did something! Or say something like: ‘God, your husband...he’s a jerk.’
NANCY: Been there!
ANITA: You know, nobody that I wouldn’t know would actually come up and ask me. But when I’m with friends and neighbours, they will ask me what I think. Even if Luc’s not in a race – I don’t know why they would think I know, right? But they are like – what would you pick? And I tell them what I think, but I don’t know anything about it really, and it’s just in good fun.
FLORENCE: Oh it’s been so long. Some people would say – oh, what’s going to happen tonight? But you just brush them off. What is your reaction when you hear someone cursing your husband?
ALICE: I don’t remember ever experiencing that. But I expect I would have been quite angry if someone had criticized Jack because I know that they all try to do their best, and a race is something in which you never know how things are going to unfold. And people who are going to do that just don’t understand the whole idea of the business.
NANCY: Back to Greenwood days again, morseso there – all the time I’d hear it. It was either ‘downtown Dougie Brown’ or it was ‘$#@% Dougie Brown.’ But in the grandstand or at the track itself, I would never acknowledge, ever, to anybody that sat around me. I wouldn’t even turn my head. I kept my mouth shut. I screamed inside! Had I been one of my brothers I probably would have popped them one, but as it was – I was a lady.
LYNN: I wouldn’t say anything. I would be fuming inside. You want to defend them! Most of the time it’s people who are with me who turn around and give the dirty look to that person. I don’t worry about it, and don’t let it bother me. And my husband says the same thing. People are going to talk.
JUDY: It happened a lot when Guy drove. You know, if you’re a catch driver, it comes with it. You drive the good ones and then you drive the poor ones. And some of these people in the grandstand, they expect drivers to work miracles with horses that just don’t have it. It’s inside, but you can’t let it out.
STEPHANIE: I try to ignore it. I had a problem in the past with a couple of things. But as I’m growing up, I’m learning that’s not the best way. I guess I still give the old stare-down. But it does happen a lot, and it’s unfortunate that it does, but that’s part of the game I guess. You’re going to get the haters. And what can you do really? Just walk away.
ANITA: I definitely would ignore it, because they’re not even worth getting into it with. It’s just not worth my time and energy to bother with people like that.
FLORENCE: I was like Nancy – I didn’t want anybody to recognize me, so I just sat there and looked straight ahead. It’s better nobody knows who you are.
Backstretch gossip spreads pretty quickly... what is the most ridiculous rumor you’ve heard about you or your husband?
NANCY: [laughs] There’s been so many!
STEPHANIE: A lot of people had a lot of things to say about me – I’m not sure why. I get more respect now that I’m married to Jody than when we were dating. But at first people who didn’t know me had a lot of bad stuff to say about me. I used to get hate mail on Facebook! I had no idea who these people were! It hurt, of course. It hurt big time. But I’ve learned to deal with it better than I used to. And it doesn’t happen much anymore. It seems like people finally just gave up.
ANITA: I don’t even want to mention any of the gossip just in case people didn’t hear it, you know? I’m going to start my own gossip! But people who gossip – I don’t really care for. They’re not going to affect my life. I want people who are straightforward and respectful in my close circle, and the rest of the people – they can say and do what they want, and that’s fine.
ALICE: Actually it was really unimportant in the busy atmosphere that we were involved in – you just go ahead about your daily business. It’s the same as any group; there’s bound to be that conversation I think.
ANITA: Of course you hear different things, but most of the time it is so preposterous and ridiculous. Sometimes you get some negative feelings from it, but you discard it so quickly.
JUDY: It’s always been around and I guess it’s just something that is prominent with the backstretch, but we were fortunate and if we heard any negativity, my husband used to say, ‘Well, when they’re talking about me, they’re leaving someone else alone.’
ALICE: That’s a great idea!
Do you have any fears about your husbands’ safety on the track or in the barns?
ANITA: I have to say I find it more nerve-wracking as time goes on, actually. I came into this business knowing absolutely nothing about it – nothing at all. So I didn’t know what actually happens or what has happened to people – I wasn’t aware of all those things. Luc has had a few falls over the last couple of years and so now of course I’m always worried. I’m always thinking that any night is a really great night when he comes home and he’s not injured.
JUDY: When we were first married and living in Ottawa, and Guy was catch-driving a lot of horses, he went down a few times – I think three times in one week. The ambulance went out the third time and I hurried to the hospital in Ottawa... and he wasn’t there! I got back to Rideau Carleton and he was sitting on the trunk. He had to make it back to drive in the ninth race! It was a Preferred race you know! But he was very fortunate in the early years I was very confident in Guy’s driving ability. In the later years, though, he had a couple of accidents and of course you don’t bounce as well when you get older!
LYNN: I’ve been around the horses my whole life, so I know what can happen in a race. What I find nerve-wracking is when Paul goes to a B track or smaller half-mile tracks – they make me nervous because it just seems like the track is too small for all those horses leaving the gate. And I also get a little more anxious when he’s not with his usual realm of drivers at Mohawk/Woodbine. The other thing that makes me nervous is when I know he’s on a bad actor and I’m always very anxious when they leave the gate. But, I feel he has very good reflexes. I think he’s a fairly safe type of driver and I have all the confidence in the world that he’s being very careful and cautious out there.
STEPHANIE: I’m not that person to be anxious over things. Why would you want to be in fear all the time? Even though I’ve seen him in accidents – you wouldn’t have fun at the races if you just pictured him in accidents all the time! I just don’t think about bad things. I like to think positive.
FLORENCE: Well, he’s not training or racing anymore but when he was, yes, I always had the fear of something happening and Jack did have a few accidents over the years. You were always anxious when they were racing. And even training, he had a few mishaps. You just don’t get over it while they’re at it, you’re always anxious.
ALICE: Yes, you always hold your breath until they get away from the gate and I often had Jack and John in the same race so I’d have double heart attacks! Jack was injured once in a qualifying race, which was rather ridiculous, but other than that we’ve been very, very fortunate. I think probably that was because of the other drivers’ expertise. It was like driving on a fairly safe highway.
id you find it more difficult watching your husband or your son?
ALICE: It was equally a concern! Of course you worried, and it didn’t get easier. But then as I get older I worry a lot better anyway.
FLORENCE: I agree there Alice. I think equally the same. Though I can be pretty nervous watching John race after all his accidents. It can be quite nerve-wracking.
Being a driver and trainer is not your typical 9-5 job... How have you and your family adjusted to a horseman’s schedule?
LYNN: From my experience, when you marry a horseman you are pretty much aware what type of schedule they have when you’re going into it. But when you have your family close by and they understand the business too, it really does help. Mom and the in-laws always try to accommodate Paul with dinners being in the middle of the afternoon versus suppertime, so that he can eat and enjoy the time with family. It’s difficult when your husband can’t come with you to weddings and out visiting and sometimes to things at school, but you cope with that. You just have to understand that this is the way of life for us and it’s different. You definitely give up a social atmosphere that most people are used to on weekends. Our days off are usually when people are working, and it doesn’t make for an easy time to go out with friends. So you do miss out on that a little bit. But the horses have been so good to us and they have provided us with a really great lifestyle, so you kind of overlook that aspect of the business.
JUDY: When you provide the entertainment on a weekend... We used to laugh that there weren’t many of our friends that wanted to go out and dance on a Tuesday or Wednesday, but as Lynn said, you live with it. That’s the way it goes and I don’t feel that we suffered any the worse for it. The kids were with us and when school was on it was sometimes hard to get the jostling for the hockey games sorted out if there was help needed and I had to go to the races. I didn’t have any family living nearby, but we did have good neighbours and good friends and it all worked.
ANITA: Actually to be honest with you, it’s not too bad. We are a very tight family and we do everything together so I always bring the kids to the races when I go, and Luc’s been really wonderful with us. Of course we don’t have family here so sometimes it’s a little hard. We do have great neighbours and great friends and I couldn’t ask for a better network up here, but at the same time it can be tricky sometimes. But that’s why Luc has decided to take it a bit easier and be with his family more and I think he really enjoys that as well. The kids see Luc when they get off the bus, which is great and we just have a little odd hours to eat and all that, but we have no choice, so we make it work. It’s not bad. I can’t complain.
ALICE: I agree with Anita. In a lot of ways, Jack and I had no choice. He started out in Saskatchewan many, many, many years ago. It was very difficult following that little circuit and of course there wasn’t much of a way anybody was going to become rich and famous for doing it. But it was a beginning and we didn’t think otherwise about it – it was just a daily thing that we did. We did well and we are very grateful to the business. Our boys were both involved. They learned how to clean stalls very early and to help out and I was busy in the office always. For years after Jack was done I would wake up at 8:30 and think oh my God, I have to make the entries. And then I would remember I don’t have to make the entries. It was just so much a part of our lives. And as I said I have very few regrets if any. It entailed a whole lot of busy years, but happy ones and I’m grateful for it all.
FLORENCE: Yes, it’s part of your life and that’s what you did. When Jack was away at the track I was home with the kids and I sat in many arenas and watched hockey and in the summer, ball games. When he could be home to help out, he did. But I have an interesting little story... Jack and I belonged to an organization together and of course he wasn’t home to go with me. And I had this lady that would ask me, ‘Where’s your husband?’ I’d say: ‘He’s racing.’ Next time she’d ask: ‘Where’s your husband?’ I’d say: ‘He’s racing.’ ‘Oh, is he still at that?!’ Finally, when they’d say, ‘Where’s your husband?’ I started telling people: ‘he works nights.’
STEPHANIE: I actually like it better. If we had husbands who worked night shifts and we didn’t get to see them – yeah, that would suck. But we really have a great opportunity…we can go and watch and hang out with them at work! I like having that option. At least you can still have your alone time at night, right, if you want? To watch your own TV! I enjoy it. I think it keeps us stronger because you miss each other more – and when he has his nights off, you appreciate the time you have together.
NANCY: It was always utmost in my mind to get as much family time as possible. I made sure every night I had a dinner together before Doug had to take off to the track so the four of us could enjoy it. That’s mainly when they’d see dad. That was very important – because then they wouldn’t even see him until the next night. That was our routine. Really, our whole experience as a family was around that one thing – supper. You know, when Doug went up to accept his induction into the Hall of Fame, he got quite emotional – I was surprised. He was looking at our kids, who are now in their twenties, I think he realized that he had been so focused on his career! I guess at that moment, he was looking at his family and going – wow... did I ever miss a lot. But that’s where I would fill in. I was mom and dad, a lot of the time.
What’s your dark night routine?
ALICE: Well my dear, Jack has been retired now for some years, so we have had lots of time to make up those years when we didn’t have time to do the things we wanted to do. And the problem with that is now we don’t have the ambition to do a lot! However, I don’t regret very many things because it was a great, great thing for us.
ANITA: We definitely have a longer and bigger dinner, but we usually do chores the whole day because we have a farm. There’s lots of stuff that needs to be done, fixing the fences, moving the horses around and this and that. But usually at night, it’s funny because we don’t desire to go out at all. We’re just so happy to actually be able to rent a movie or watch whatever is on TV and just talk a little bit about what happened over the week. It’s our night where everything is more relaxed and we can recap things and just lounge.
JUDY: As Anita said, with the farm there’s always something to do, so if we were on the road four or five nights a week racing we were really glad to have a night at home. And especially to get caught up on other things that you would haven’t time to do if you had to load up and truck the horses to race. We never looked to do anything or go anywhere on a night off. It was just nice to be home.
KIM: Except dancing?
JUDY: Yes!
STEPHANIE: That’s the night I usually make dinner – that’s the only night I really can because he doesn’t like to eat a big meal before he races. That’s the night Hailey comes over and we can hang out as a family or hang out with our friends – go out and enjoy life.
LYNN: I’m always looking forward to these days off – he’s at the barn, he’s there until three, and then he’s starving so we have to have dinner early, but we get to have dinner nice and casually instead of in a big rush! It’s usually a barbeque in the summer and a swim or whatever. But we really like to relax and slow down. In the winter months when it’s cold outside and it’s snowy, for us it’s a nice dinner and on the couch for Hockey Night in Canada. Go Leafs go! It’s a big deal in our house to watch hockey whenever he gets a chance to watch. He’s a die hard Leaf fan. And everybody knows that in the driver’s room; he gets lots of ribbing for it.
NANCY: Usually once a week we would take our guys out for dinner – it was a weekly event for the four of us. The other thing we had too was season tickets for the Leafs. We had them for 16 years! So in the winter, it was always Leaf games.
What is the biggest change you’ve witnessed in the sport over the years?
LYNN: The biggest change for us was when slots came into effect because our pay cheques increased dramatically, and it meant the end of Paul travelling all over the United States and to the Meadowlands. It enabled us to stay at home and focus on the races here in Ontario. We had good money at home and it just made for a much nicer family life.
ALICE: I think one of the biggest changes is the improvement in the horse itself. It’s nothing anymore really – it’s very common place – to see horses go around 1:50. The speed that they have accomplished! I guess it’s the breeding over the years that has improved that much and there’s lots of changes in the equipment. And there is a change in that we have lost a lot of fan base, which bothers me, though I am not wise enough to suggest how it could be improved. I think one thing is that a lot of children used to be involved with horses at home agriculturally and with other kinds of livestock, and today they don’t have the opportunity to be involved that way. But I think the basic love for horses – I’m hoping – will keep our business going.
NANCY: When I first got involved in this at 19, I always saw the horse at the top of the totem pole. And it’s not that way anymore. As society has progressed, we live in a faster world; everybody wants everything now. But if the horse and its welfare was at the center of every topic, every discussion... I think money has overtaken that center.
JUDY: It’s a combination of many things, the horse, the tracks and the way they are built and maintained and the equipment the horses have. The slot money was really great. A lot of the tracks were able to stay in operation because of the slots. Yes, I also think there should be better input from the racetracks themselves for promoting and I mean just having some fun things for the patrons too to get them there.
STEPHANIE: I think the drivers seem more professional now than they used to be. It actually seems to be more about them and the horses. The starting gate has definitely changed. The entertainment, too. It’s seems like they are trying to get the bettors more involved with the racing with family fun days.
Any final thoughts?
NANCY: Both Doug and I just feel very blessed. He’s had a wonderful career. We’ve met terrific people. We’re involved with the best people. I think it’s the loyalty, you know? Doug’s been blessed; he’s at over 8,000 wins. He never dreamt that could happen!
ALICE: Yes, I think that it’s our privilege now to look back and think about the highs and there were a lot of them. I think families that have been involved together have had an exceptional experience. That’s the nice thing to me, to look at all the good parts of the business and try to put that forth for other people to realize. People who are looking in on the business are sometimes somewhat critical. I think it would be nice for them to sometimes know more about the inner workings and some of the happiest things about it rather than the things that aren’t going as well as they might be. And maybe if we all put in our ideas about how we think things can go better somebody might believe some of it.
JUDY: We’ve really enjoyed and I am still enjoying the sport and the industry and I’m proud of my two sons who are involved with the horses. And I just think like Alice does – that people should think on the upside and try to think of the good things and the happy times and the good people and hopefully it will all stay together and keep on going.